Meet the Patrons interview with Joe Duignan of Wriggle Learning

With an undergraduate degree in Business Studies and IT from Technological University of the Shannon, Joe Duignan began his work life in sales with computer hardware manufacturer Gateway in 1998. He would go on to become a Training Specialist responsible for training, development and coaching of the retail sales teams in the EMEA region. Success in that role took him to Australia where he moved to Harris Technology as the National Training Manager and, after that, Head of Learning and Development with FlexiGroup. A 10-year stint Down Under ended in 2008 when he returned to Ireland with FlexiGroup to set up its Irish operation. In 2015, he took up the role of General Manager of Technology for Harvey Norman Ireland. He followed this in 2018 with a one-year spell with Ryanair as Head of Inflight Operations. Joe took up the role of COO with Wriggle Learning in April 2019. 

What are the biggest lessons you learned in your career?

Don’t be afraid of change – that’s the biggest lesson. I moved a lot between different industries in my career because I saw it as a great way of growing professionally and increasing my breadth of knowledge. It kind of ties in with the best piece of advice I’ve ever received, which is, ‘When you’re green, you’re growing. When you’re ripe, you’re rotten’. The point is that you should always be looking for opportunities to grow and learn, because you’ll never be the finished article. There will always be something out there to challenge you and you should never be afraid to take on those challenges. 

How would you define your work style and how has this changed over your career?

At the start of my career, as a salesperson, I was an individual contributor because my function was somewhat separate from that of the team. Since then, I’ve become passionate about people growing within the organisation, ensuring that they can develop themselves and that we support that development. As I’ve evolved, I’ve recognised that people are the real strength within the organisation. I’m much more collaborative now, which I have to be I’m involved in so many different parts of the organisation. Recently, our business went through a huge amount of digital transformation, investing heavily in systems to drive efficiencies like automation and so on. That process was only successful because we involved everyone on that journey. We sourced input from the team before we made changes in the organisation. 

What have you learned about managing teams and individuals?

Everybody is different. The strength of any team is derived from the diversity of skillsets and characters. That’s the first thing. The other thing I’ve learned is around the importance of building teams and building out cultures. During the Covid-19 pandemic, and even the post-Covid period, organisations lost a little bit of soul. We’re very much a remote-first business but I really enjoy going into the office. The human element is important because we don’t want to replace key personal engagements with tech. Obviously, we’re advocates for bringing digital technology into the classroom, but technology is just a tool. Nothing can replace good teaching or mentorship.  

What advice would you give to your younger self?

To be honest, I would find it difficult to give advice to my younger self because there’s not a lot I would change. Ultimately, I would probably say that it’s okay to take risks because they pay off and even if they don’t, you learn from them. 

If you had not chosen your current career what you love to do?

I’d be a professional athlete. In the dream scenario, I’d be a footballer, but golfers have longer careers so I’d probably opt for that! 

How has AI impacted your organisation/industry?

The pace of technological change is exciting but it’s difficult to keep up and people are fearful. You could compare this time to the advent of the internet in the sense that it brought people together and provided access to near-limitless amounts of information. Looking back 18 months to our conversations with the likes of Microsoft and Google, programmes like Co-Pilot and Gemini were not even monetised. Now they’re mainstream. The key thing is that educators keep pace with what’s happening. AI can be a huge benefit in the classroom. There are lots of opportunities around facilitating creativity and dynamism in the formation of lesson plans or using AI to save valuable time on repetitive tasks. 

What are the opportunities and/or risks from AI to your business or sector and/or the learning technology industry?

There’s a danger of becoming too reliant on AI but the key thing to remember is that technology is a tool, and you should never become over-reliant on any one tool. Data privacy and security is a real concern, too. Allowing an AI tool to access your data can be risky if you don’t have the right security protocols and procedures in place. There’s also the question around accuracy of results, whether an AI can be a trusted source of truth. That’s where the over-dependency comes in. You can’t have an AI doing all your thinking for you. Ultimately, if you’re a student, educator or someone in the private sector using an AI tool, you need to be able to critically analyse results and collaborate and operate in teams. AI isn’t going to be able to do your day-to-day job, so there’s a basic skill level that you will need to fulfil the responsibilities of your role.  

From the teacher’s point of view, AI is a potentially invaluable time-saver. If there’s one thing educators crave, it’s time. The school day, week and year is quite short when you break it down, so there’s never enough time. Anything you can do to reduce the mundane administrative tasks and give educators back teaching time is a good thing. 

From your experience, what are the current trends in learning?

There’s a desire for more personalised learning now. The reality is that we all absorb information in different ways and teaching and learning needs to adapt. Educators need to be supported in that transition. AI can help with that. Now, learning doesn’t stop in the classroom. There’s also a growing appetite for more micro learning. I would never have been a deep learner. The evolution of microlearning has really suited me in that I can dip in for a short period of time and emerge with enough knowledge to at least have a conversation about a given topic. On top of that, I see gamification coming into the education sector and technology will ultimately support this tool for learning. 

How can third level address the skills gaps/challenges you are facing?

In education, there’s a shortage of teachers. There aren’t enough people going into the profession. That creates a challenge for school leaders. There needs to be a government-driven strategy to get more teachers into the industry, and give them the capacity to keep up with the evolution of technology as it further embeds itself in day to day teaching and learning practices. Technology is moving at such a rapid pace and we need to ensure that all the tools and supports are there for teachers – and that they have time to learn those skills and use them. 

What book would you recommend on learning, technology, business or understanding people?

The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. 

The habits focus on things like being proactive, beginning with the end in mind, seeking win-win situations, synergising and sharpening the saw, which is about continuously learning. It sticks with me because when I was in Australia, we tasked the senior leadership of the company with reading the book and then took them to an off-site for four days to live the seven habits. Then we took what we learned over those days and applied it in the workplace afterwards. We kept ourselves accountable to applying those habits, by ensuring that we were applying elements in everything that we did. When I look now at how I structure my day or week or how I operate, it’s all down to that book. 

What are your favourite tools and resources in work?

We are starting to use more AI tools within our business to improve workflow, automation and efficiencies. We try to be advocates for AI by running workshops to show educators how to use AI tools to save times and help them in the classroom. Personally, I use CoPilot, ChatGPT and Gemini from time to time. I’m always on the lookout for new tools but those tools are great for that.  

Any interesting podcasts or other media do you consume that you would recommend on learning, technology or business?

One that I dip into it from time to time, The High Performance Podcast from Jake Humphreys. It’s very wide and varied and it’s relevant. It’s a mix of everything from business to sport and really interesting. It’s diverse and you can always pick a nugget of gold form it. 

Why is membership of Learnovate important to your company? What does Learnovate do well?

I like the environment that Learnovate creates. They’re developing a community of likeminded people who are really trying to make a difference. Out of that comes a great network that you can dip into when you need. Learnovate focuses on getting the members together regularly, whether in-person or online. We do our best to attend all these meetings because if you want to get the most from the membership you need to be active member. When thought leaders get together, you always come away with something new. Learnovate’s content is relevant because the organisation is always on pace with what’s going on. Often people will do research and, such is the pace of change, the research is redundant before it’s even published. Learnovate has a lot of foresight around the research piece. They also help to foster innovation. Their accelerator program hosted in conjunction with AWS in which SMEs are pitching for investment.is a great example of how they are encouraging young entrepreneurs to develop new products and services for the industry.